Charles Taylor’s 2007 Templeton Prize winner has fostered an exceptionally vibrant intellectual debate on secularism and on the conditions of belief under modernity.
Social theorists such as Marx & Weber rely on the idea of a secular state, which separates governmental and religious institutions, & bases its authority on man-made law rather than religious doctrine.
It's often missed that secular is a Christian idea, straight out of Augustine, who coined the word 'saeculum' to mean the present age where the two cities (of God and of man) always interpenetrate until the eschaton. Brian Hamilton explains:
Augustine secularizes the world and the church alike, divesting them of the absolute or final significance which either has only eschatologically. The Roman Empire is not identical with the earthly city, and the Church, though it can be identified with the heavenly city in a special way, remains a corpus permixtum while on pilgrimage here on earth, the tares growing up alongside the wheat until they are sorted out at the final judgment.As I hinted at once, it's no cheap thing that secular expectations should flow out of a Christian view of history. That is something very precious indeed. Hamilton goes on
Admittedly, that's been corrupted into the Secularisaton Thesis, that progress in society would be characterised by religion becoming increasingly private and marginal, but like most political theory after Hegel, at its roots it's parasitical on a Christian view of history (see John Gray, Black Mass). (The thesis is now widely discredited)Indeed, according to Markus, Augustine broke ranks with many of his contemporaries by secularizing history itself: outside the total interpretation given to salvation history in the biblical canon, no history can possess ultimate significance; since the Incarnation and until Christ returns, history is homogeneous, always ambiguous as to the final end of what comes to pass and always a mystery as to where and how God may be working. This, in short, is Augustine’s theology of the saeculum
So for instance, in Religion in Secular Society (1966), Brian Wilson defined secularisation as “the process whereby religious thinking, practice and institutions lose social significance”, and he illustrated how industrialisation, urbanisation, rationalisation, bureaucratisation and societalisation have undermined religious institutions; how the economy, welfare, education, health, the law and other public spheres no longer depend on religious values, practices or institutions.
Wilson conflates religious values & religious institutions under one head: 'public religion'. While it's pretty obvious that civil life can be ordered by institutions other than wholly religious ones, it's not at all obvious that civil life can be ordered apart from religious values. I think Tony's spot on (HT: Tom).
What I find strange is that religious practice & institutions seem to be rife (defying the secularisation thesis), yet the crisis in our culture is one of values. I would have thought it'd be the other way round.
Reminds me of Chesterton, who nailed it (as usual) in Orthodoxy:
The modern world is not evil; in some ways the modern world is far too good. It is full of wild and wasted virtues. When a religious scheme is shattered...it is not merely the vices that are let loose. The vices are, indeed, let loose, and they wander and do damage. But the virtues are let loose also; and the virtues wander more wildly, and the virtues do more terrible damage. The modern world is full of the old Christian virtues gone mad. The virtues have gone mad because they have been isolated from each other and are wandering alone.


5 comments:
Fascinating: thanks for posting it all. But Tony only got close at one point: the need for humility before God. 'Faith' and 'spirituality' without truth are worthless. He's still labouring under the illusion that all faiths share similar values - and despite common grace, that's not exactly true and doesn't help us much.
ah, la rose en vie! good to hear from you. True, but I wonder if that's his point? He's not defending their truth, but trying to save a humane kind of liberalism.
For a long time people have said that theological/religious language had no place at the public table. Everyone should use the neutral secular language in public, and keep God-talk private. So, lest the gospel be lost in translation, Hauerwas says the church should resist discussion on those terms, since "Christians have no stake in Western civilisation, nor should we try to rescue the epistemological or political forms of liberalism". I think that's laudable, but buys the premise that God-talk shouldnt be at the table on its own terms. Many people are increasingly following John Rawls' Idea of Public Reason where anyone is free to call upon any "comprehensive doctrine", provided they are prepared to make a case for it as well. I think what people like TB are saying is that
1) there is no common, neutral secular language of society
2) faith plays a major part in it for many people
3) confidence [faith?!] in secular humanism lacks a moral vision to cope with the pace of change
4) so we must learn to listen and understand each other in our own languages, rather than barring the language from the table.
Incidentally, that's why John Lennox is so involved in these discussions, here and in Europe.
I think it's telling that the Edinburgh fringe is opening with a debate on ‘The New Europe should prefer the New Atheism’, between Dr Lennox (Oxford scientist who thinks God is great) and Christopher Hitchens (journalist who thinks He isnt).
Tickets are £10 and you can book online now at www.eif.co.uk
Hmm. So it's saying culturally, politically, etc., that we should learn each others languages to greater understanding rather than claiming that esperanto is possible? Fair enough. I didn't quite recognise your four points in that clip, but he was waffling for the priests rather than reasoning for a debate, wasn't he? Anyway, good points. I would like to hear Lennox sometime, but I'll pass this time as I'll have got home from Austria that day in the early hours. T'y vas ? C frappant ke Edinbourg decide ouvrir avec un tel sujet - moi j'avais pensee ke notre Reasonable Faith Tour repondait a un question ke personne ne demande point.
I think so, but I am hearing his words in the context of Habermas/Hauerwas/Rawls on public discussion.
I think if you listen to something like that in the context of inter-faith dialogue: "lets all work together cos we're all saying the same thing in our own languages aren't we" then you'll not hear those points.
But as a politician concerned with public reason, I think that's more in tune.
Oui tu dois ecouter M Lennox un jour. Malheureusement j'irai pas cette fois-ci, pourtant je m'attends a ce qu'il ait un grand impact. Quant a RF, j'estime que ca depend a de tels gens qu'on interpelle...chris
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